>> tim cook, according to the interview, with steve jobs, not a product guy. but there are product guys there. this was not a one-man company. >> no, it wasn't. >> henry ford was not the only person at ford. but ford did change rather dramatically. is that the right analog? i struggle on apple every day, because the data points are not so great. >> they're not. as a consumer, who uses apple products, we want to love the stock, but that's not necessarily the case. >> i love the ecosystem so much. i was downloading this apple ecosystem from itunes. but it's not a rain forest, and we're not out there trying to preserve it. taking shots at them. >> i'm looking at the european banks. the basel requirements we were talking about being extended for four years or so. liquidity requirements being loosened. the european banks are doing well for the second straight day. deutsche bank seeing the biggest gain, another 1.5% in today's session. they're well capitalized at this point. >> even during the height of the crisis, the bankers at various places, you say, where would